Meeting documents
Area Forum (Heswall and Pensby & Thingwall)
Monday, 18th June 2007
Present
Chair
Cllr Peter Johnson
Ward Councillors
IJ Mackenzie, Sarah Quinn, MG Redfern, SL Rowlands
Community Representatives
A Garrett (Heswall Community Representative)
Older People's Parliament Representative
Sandy Cameron
Lead Officer
Chris Batman (Head of Branch, Planning and Resources, Children and Young People's Department)
Street Scene Manager
Phil Miner
Area Service Co-ordinator
Tracey Smith
Wirral Primary Care Trust
Russell Favager
Merseyside Police
Inspector Kate Cunningham
Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service
Paul Gibson
Council Officers
Cathy Newman ( Community Safety Team)
Apologies
Cllr Andrew Hodson
Index to Minutes
- Minute 1 - Welcome and introductions
- Minute 2 - Election of Chairman
- Minute 3 - Area co-ordinators Report - Tracey Smith - Area Plan Update
- Minute 3 - Minutes of last meeting and matters arising
- Minute 5 - Older Peoples Parliament
- Minute 6 - Wirral Hospital Trust Engagement Strategy Presentation
- Minute 7 - Partner Updates - Fire & Rescue Service - - Police - Community Safety - Wirral Primary Care Trust
- Minute 8 - Public question time
- Minute 9 - Dates of Future meetings/Presentations
Minute 1 - Welcome and introductions
Minute Text :
Chris Batman welcomed everyone to the meeting, and reported that he had to begin the meeting as Cllr. McKelvie is no longer a councillor and it is, therefore, necessary to elect a new Chairman.
Minute 2 - Election of Chairman
Minute Text :
Chris Batman asked whether there were any nominations for Chairman and:
Cllr. Rowlands proposed Cllr. Johnson and as there were no other proposals, Chris Batman asked for a seconder, and Cllr. Ian Mackenzie seconded. Chris Batman declared that Cllr. Johnson be Chairman.
Minute 3 - Area co-ordinators Report - Tracey Smith - Area Plan Update
Minute Text :
Tracey Smith reminded people that the Heswall/Pensby/Thingwall Area Forum had decided to take their own Decisions regarding money spent in Integrated Transport. The amount allocated is £16,500. and this has to be used and all the work completed by April 2008. So far, only one suggestion has been received from Mr. Garrett. If anyone else has any suggestions, please let Technical Services know within the next two weeks, as they have to plan their programme.
Safer and Stronger Communities. Children and Young People Youth Service update. There is money available from the Youth Capital Fund Opportunity Fund, but applications must be received by June 25th 2007 There is also now a Fair Trade Guide for Wirral and the latest news on Wirral’s waste collection programme.
There is need to have a Community Initiative Fund panel meeting on 5th July Tracey asked that if anyone is interested please pass their name to her. Cllr Rowlands volunteered to join the panel.
Area Plan Update. All Area Plans have recently been reviewed and refreshed to see that they are up-to-date so that anyone wishing to buy property or move into the area can see what is proposed in the future, to make sure they area easy to use and useful to residents with the final part being a Local Action Plan, which will reflect matters raised at the Area Forums. They are large documents, and as such expensive to produce, and there are only 15 copies if anyone would like a copy contact Tracey Smith at the end of the meeting.
Mr. Garrett voiced concern over the new Area Plans, and felt that they are becoming meaningless, as the draft for all eleven areas are now looking the same, with set area concerns and a limited set of objectives.
Public transport is not mentioned in the action plan by Wirral Council, but is left to Merseytravel.
Merseytravel do not have representation on the Area Forums, and yet we all pay our Council Tax, some of which goes to the Police, Fire Service and Merseytravel. We should be informed of their intentions. Tracey stated the original sub-committees did look at the 2006 proposals, and this is the refreshed version for 2007/08, taking into consideration local issues. One of the issues was a problem with public transport to the local hospitals. The new plan now had realistic milestones and dates so that the forum could actually tackle the issues with its partners. She pointed out that Wirral Council have no power over Merseytravel, but there is a local transport plan that covers most of the transport issues that Mr Garrett raised. Tracey Smith suggested that Wirral Transport Users Association lobby Arriva Wales for improved conditions etc and asked that Mr Garrett take that up as he is Secretary of the group.
Minute 3 - Minutes of last meeting and matters arising
Minute Text :
The Minutes were agreed as a correct report, and Tracey updated items in her Report which followed.
Minute 5 - Older Peoples Parliament
Minute Text :
Older Peoples’ Parliament Mr. Cameron stated the Older Peoples’ Parliament concentrates more on issues affecting the more mature members of society, and he was amazed at the wide range covered by the Area Forum. He stated that he had left copies of Newsletters on the signing in table. One of the pages has a contact number for Lesley Howells if more information is required. Mr. Garrett asked for which areas the Older Peoples’ Parliament had members, and the reply was all of the wards apart from Bromborough.
Val Curtis wondered if people have not come forward because the term “older people”. Sandy Cameron replied that there had been much discussion at the first meeting, with many suggestions put forward, and Older People had been opted for. Tracey pointed out this was not Wirral Councils Older Peoples Parliament the idea came from the senior citizens forum. The council work in partnership with the parliament. It is for anyone aged 50 upwards. Mrs.Diana Lane asked in view of the feeling of allegiance to Ellesmere Port by Eastham whether there would be anyone applying to be part of the parliament.
Mr. Garrett said that he is part of the Transport sub group of the older peoples parliament and they have been discussing the best way to improve services. There are disabled people being refused on buses, drivers not putting the ramps down and many other complaints. Merseytravell Support Services – some of these have been withdrawn, some weekday, some weekends. The standard of buses is low, some double deckers are very old, and should not begin to move off until older people are seated. Travel passes should be allowed to be used prior to 9.30 a.m., particularly for hospital visits. Control of Merseytravel routes required throughout Merseyside. Mr. Garrett again stated the Bidston-Wrexham Line should be put in hand. (Tracey reported that it had been included in the Local Transport Plan.) Many of Mersey Rail stations are old, and do not have suitable access for the disabled. Ramps or lifts should be installed as soon as possible, not just for the disabled, but mothers with prams etc. No toilet facilities at many stations, and still need more trains.
Minute 6 - Wirral Hospital Trust Engagement Strategy Presentation
Minute Text :
Gary Docherty introduced himself as a Director from Wirral Hospital Trust, and he had come to talk about the Trust, and the progression to a Foundation Trust. This will require a five year plan, and this is an opportunity to talk about the plan, and for those present to ask questions. Arrowe Park Hospital sees 400,000 patients per year, with a budget in the region of £240,000,000. per year, employing 6,000 staff, and as such is one of the major employers on Wirral. Approximately 90,000 patients to A. and E. and 100,000 admitted to beds at Arrowe Park or Clatterbridge. They provide many local services, and also some tertiary services. The five year plan is a public document which shows the changes proposed over the next five years. It has been largely determined by Government policy and the improvement of health on the Wirral. Hospitals should need to concentrate on those who need them, and try to achieve “care closer to home”. This means that if there are services in the community that patients could use without the need to go to a hospital, then the Trust want to try and utilise these services more, and leave the hospitals free to cater for the very sick. More day cases could be attended to in the community, particularly those five to ten year olds, and test results should be transmitted by computer. Part of the Government policy is that patients can choose the hospital they wish to go to – e.g. The Countess of Chester or over to Liverpool. This will give hospitals more of an incentive to concentrate on what patients want and expect. It is proposed that by December 2008 the wait to go into any hospital will be no more than 18 weeks. This is the length of time from your referral by your GP to the time when you are treated. The previous waiting period of two years for a new hip has now been reduced to twenty six weeks. More tests will be done in Primary care, which means that the operations etc. will be carried out more quickly.
Funding Changes. Hospitals now receive income according to the number of patients they treat whereas they received the money in one lump sum.
Five Year Plan.
1. Treat more patients, in particular in the run up to the 18 Weeks.
2. Invest income to invest in services.
3. Develop services locally so that patients do not need to go to the cardiac thoracic centre for specialist treatment.
4. £10,000,000 investment on new equipment and buildings. The new Children’s Treatment Centre, A and E Department, more single rooms to be introduced.
The population of Wirral is getting older, and it is anticipated that there will be more emergency patients coming into hospitals, as this tends to happen in a community of older people. The length of hospital visits will be reduced, and this has already been in place over the past couple of years. More patients will go home on the day of their surgery, but some patients do have to come in the night before their surgery. 80% now go home on the day of their operation, last year it was 75%, and this will make the Primary Care Trust more efficient.
Some of the Older Persons units are moving from Clatterbridge To Arrowe Park, and this will help them leave hospital more quickly. There will be purpose-built units, and the staff from Clatterbridge will come to Arrowe Park. Last year £5,000,000 was saved, without any compulsory redundancies.
Finally, should the Trust successfully become a Foundation Trust (1st July) there will be a membership drive, and application forms are available. There are 6,000 members at present, and new letters will be going out to members to ask whether they would be interested in becoming a Governor. There will be a Road Show in the next couple of months.
Cllr. Ian Mackenzie, who is a Consultant in a Foundation Hospital, asked how the Trust are going to manage the quality of work coming out of Arrowe Park?
Mr. Doherty replied that, at the moment, there are discussions under way for national standards to transfer work out of the hospitals to G.Ps etc. The external agency, the Health Care Commission will have a specification for the level and standard of care, and this will be the same sort of guide as an audit. Wirral Hospital Trust try to get the feedback from patients, and there are very experienced nurses who visits patients on the wards and report back on the patients’ experiences.
Mr. Cameron voiced his concern about the movement of older patients from Clatterbridge to Arrowe Park, as they are not coping at the moment. Mr. Doherty stated that there will not be any building, but that wards will be refurbished and re-housing will take place. Operating beds and theatres at Clatterbridge will be kept as busy as they can be, but there will be no building there. It was pointed out that car parking is always a problem wherever you are. The emergency services will remain at Arrowe Park.
Russell Favager stated that other services will be available nearer to peoples’ homes (e.g. for blood tests etc.) Mrs. Lane has been visiting Clatterbridge for a long time and feels that the whole thing is chaotic. She pointed out that no mention had been made of Wallasey Hospital, and this would be so much nearer for some patients. She asked for clarification on the Eye Department, as she had been told that patients will be sent to Liverpool. The reply was that this was a misunderstanding.
There was lengthy discussion about the state of Clatterbridge, and the Trust is talking about the provision of a new renal dialysis unit. The question was asked as to whether the local G.Ps knew about these arrangements.
Mr. Rafferty asked which wards are going to be closed, and when will the patients be moved. He also asked how much money had been spent on refurbishment at Clatterbridge, and which now will be closed. Many people expressed dismay at what they saw as the lack of sensible planning. Mr Doherty stated that they must have a Five Year Plan which is new. Mr. Cameron said that there was a Ten Year Plan twenty years ago at Arrowe Park.
Val Curtis (Friends of Arrowe Park) wished to clarify that it had been stated there would be no building at Arrowe Park. As Pro-Active Health policy has been accepted, it is vitally important that the green spaces remain. Mr Doherty stated again that there are no such proposals in the Five Year Plan, and he does not think that there will be any further building around Arrowe Park.
“There is no plan to build and take up bigger building foot prints”. Friends of Arrowe Park would be looking to work with the Trust if they are not going to build. It was stated that services in the community are still a dream, and the Primary Care Trust is to put some money into this area.
Russ Favager stated that the Primary Care Trust spend about £30,000,000. on primary care services, and they are working to take services out of the hospitals and into the community.
Mr. Heerwagen stated that in the report, there was no mention of any way to cut money from waste, and in his view appear there is a waste of time and stock.
Mr Doherty replied that it is proposed to have a computer based stock control system, which will reduce costs and make the service more efficient. He gave some examples of how the stock control would give a clearer picture and avoid wastage.
Russ Favager stated that the public sector have to find savings of two and a half percent each year, and will be penalised if they do not do so, and this also has to take into account the rise in salaries if they do not meet the criteria. They will also have to negotiate over the costs of equipment.
Cllr. Rowlands said that he was incensed by all this, he felt that the Trust had lost touch with the public, and yet they were saying they had no responsibility. One lady felt that Cllr. Rowlands was unfair in making his remarks which were political.
Mr Doherty replied that the local hospital scores are good. he said that he would like to have cleaner wards and improved services, and that is what Wirral Hospital Trust is working towards. There was further discussion about the length of time waiting in cancer referral cases, and that ten years ago it was unusual to hear anyone mention waste in the system, or that people had been waiting in A. and E. a long time.
Russ Favager replied that he was speaking on the opposite side of the fence from the point of view of the commissioner. If the hospital does not get it right, there are contracts with other hospitals, like Murrayfield. One lady said that she must say that when her husband had an operation at Arrowe Park, she could not speak too highly of them.
Minute 7 - Partner Updates - Fire & Rescue Service - - Police - Community Safety - Wirral Primary Care Trust
Minute Text :
Fire and Rescue Service.
Paul Gibson said that this was his first visit, and that he was keen to get to know people. He lives in the area, and is working with the Police, Wirral Council and the services in general. The Fire Service produce their Integrated Management Plan, and this can be found on line under merseyfire.gov.uk or write in to the Mersey Head Office or your local Fire Station. The Service Risk Management Plan mean that the Force get out in the community working with everyone to achieve higher standards. They are working also with young people visiting schools and explaining about the dangers of lighting fires etc. Also working to reduce anti-social behaviour, and with the Good Samaritans Response Unit. They will give advice on any problems with fire, also have a programme “Drive to Arrive”, which gives young people advice on driving, to try to reduce serious accidents. They also have specialist, skilled people trained for accidents involving biological materials etc., deaf advocates, some members work with the elderly, disabled and many other groups. The home fire safety checks have been very effective, and on Wirral 1,270 were fitted in 2005 and this is on track to increase There has been an 80% reduction in dwelling fires. So far in 2007 between March and June 613 have been fitted, and there have only been 6 dwelling fires. Areas they are still working on – deliberate secondary fires reduced to 22, due to Firemen going out into the community. People over 50 who are single, with a health problem or drink/smoke problem are vulnerable. Empty property which is not totally boarded up is reported, and suitably closed up – all this work is with our Partners. This year we have tried to reduce the fires in grassland and open spaces, which is sometimes due to hot weather, and we have been working with the Rangers over Heswall Dales and the Beacons, Thurstaston Hill etc, encouraging children not to go and smoke in these areas. They also have a specialist hazardous materials vehicle in the area, as there are some companies working with very specialised materials. All in all, they have a very diverse programme of activities. David Hall asked if one saw a group of youngsters with a fire, would the Fireman suggest that an attempt be made to put it out. Inspector Cunningham answered that you should not try yourself to do anything, but simply telephone the Police. The Police and the Fire Service are patrolling vulnerable areas in very hot weather, and next year it is proposed that there will be a programme. Bidston is still a hot spot.
Police
Inspector Cunningham reported that they had recently received the results for last year’s performance. The result shows that all crime has reduced in the neighbourhood by 3%. Violent crime by 14%, which is lower than the national trend. 22% on vehicle crime reported, and anti-social behaviour 23%. Regular meetings are held with the Neighbourhood Action Groups. The following concerns were noted – anti-social behaviour, under-age drinking and speeding traffic. It has been decided that the priority will be under-age drinking. The number of people killed or seriously injured on Wirral has reduced by 40, which is a 22% decrease on previous years. We have issued a significant increase of Fixed Penalty Notices regarding speeding, not wearing seat belts and the use of the mobile phone while driving. Cllr. I. Mackenzie reported he had been called out to see a “gang” causing a bother. It turned out to be three boys playing football. Inspector Cunningham stated that they should not be called gangs, the word is group. There is often disturbance on Barnston/Brimstage Road and Saturday night with signs pushed over. Phil Miner reported that the Bus Stop had been dealt with. David Hall asked whether it was worth logging licence numbers if you have seen people driving whilst using a mobile phone. Inspector Cunningham replied that it is often an expensive and time consuming exercise, and that in the end it is found not to be the owner of the car driving it.
Community Safety Cathy Newman reported that they continue to work with their Partners in Manor Road. The anti-social behaviour team, the volume of property theft from vehicles and violent hate actions are all recorded and acted upon. We do live in a safe area, and have been asked by the Home Office about the way incidents are reported and dealt with. This good practice will be taken round the country and this could attract some funding for the area.
Wirral Primary Care Trust Russell Favager reported that from 1st July 2007 we will become smoke free and this includes all National Health buildings. Anyone who wants to give up smoking should see their GP, Health Service or Wirral Primary Care Trust. There are packs on Giving up smoking available, and the ban will apply in all work places.
Someone asked whether this ban included partially glazed bus stops, and Phil Miner said he would investigate and confirm.
Minute 8 - Public question time
Minute Text :
1. Mr. Garrett asked if the Wirral Primary Trust had submitted an application for the Warren Nurseries. Russ Favager replied that an application has been submitted, and they will be consulting with the WMBC over the possible use of the land. Mike McCann had consulted with all the residents who live within half a kilometre of the Warrens site, and the comments have been incorporated in the documents which have gone in. There will be full consultation with all patients who will be affected. If patients do not wish to move, they will be able to speak to one of the other surgeries with a view to joining them.
2. Chris Lord reported that many roads in Heswall are in a dreadful state, but that in this new list from the Council there are no roads down for repair. He had spoken to Cllr. Hodson months ago regarding Quarry Road East, but this has not been included.
Mr. Garrett reported that residents have been asked for a list and had submitted their own list. Part of Banks Road support is sliding into the ditch, and this is dangerous. It was stated that the surface of Banks Road is still in a reasonable state of repair, but the ditch is in private owner- ship, and they have to approach the owner.
3. Mr. Cameron reported that the Aldi entrance is extremely dangerous as people crossing do not expect anyone to drive out of the Council car park, across and into Aldi. Inspector Cunningham pointed out that this is, in fact, breaking the law, but that it would be impractical for her to position a Policeman to try and catch offenders. A suggestion was put forward that the Aldi entrance should be constructed opposite the Council car park to make it easier but this was emphatically opposed.
Minute 9 - Dates of Future meetings/Presentations
Minute Text :
Tuesday, October 23rd 2007 – venue to be decided.
No Presentation currently planned.
(Minutes Published: 7 August 2007)