Meeting documents

Area Forum (Oxton and Prenton)
Tuesday, 5th October 2004

Present

Chair

FM Doyle

Ward Councillor

Mrs F E F Anderson, A Bridson, SA Holbrook, Mrs P M Williams

Community Representatives

Alan Dollery (Prenton Tenants & Residents Assoc.), June Foster (Wirral Fed. of Tenants & Residents Assocs.)

Lead Officer

Alan Stennard (Director of Regeneration)

Area Service Co-ordinator

Michelle Gray, Maxine Joynson

Merseyside Police

Inspector Ian Shaw

Council Officers

Gary Cummings (Area Streetscene Manager), Mike Walker (Community Safety Officer)

In attendance:

Stephen Hesford MP, Richard Jones (Birkenhead and Wallasey Primary Care Trust), Gary Rickwood (Drugs and Alcohol Action Team)

Apologies

Cllr SE Kelly, Patrick Toosey (Oxton Society)

Index to Minutes

Minute 1 - WELCOME AND INTRODUCTIONS

Minute Text :

Councillor Frank Doyle welcomed everybody to the meeting. There were 22 members of the public present.

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Minute 2 - AREA CO-ORDINATOR'S REPORT / AREA FORUM PROGRESS REPORT

Minute Text :

The Area Co-ordinator's reports were available for everyone attending the meeting.

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Minute 3 - AREA PLANS

Minute Text :

Those present were advised that the main task for each area forum had been to develop and agree a local area plan which reflected the needs and priorities of the area, and provided the area forums with a list of priorities which needed to be addressed. Since initial work on the plans, the boundaries of the area forums had changed. Any issues that affected Oxton and Prenton would be brought to this forum. A draft plan relating to the new boundaries would be available for the next meeting.

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Minute 4 - COMMUNITY INITIATIVES FUND

Minute Text :

A member of the public, Richard Neale requested a fuller explanation of the operation of the fund.

It was explained that the money came from the Council budget. In the first year it had been allocated £5000, then £10,000, then £15,000 but had been re-allocated as each forum had been reorganised on the basis of 2 wards. More information was available in the report.

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Minute 5 - POLICE ISSUES

Minute Text :

The Chair then asked members of the public if thay had questions for Inspector Ian Shaw on police issues.

The Chair read the first question out from Graham Edwards who said that as he was working abroad he could not attend the meeting but asked the forum to address the issue of a Neighbourhood Watch in Prenton Road West.

Inspector Shaw replied that he has corresponded with Mr Edwards and spoken to him. He had informed him that there was a volunteer organisation called Wirral Watch who work with the police. He had put Mr. Edwards in touch with them.

Andrew Taylor of Tranmere Hall Residents Association said that with the new boundaries his area now came under Upton Police Station instead of Well Lane. This was very difficult for the residents to understand, when they were transferred to Prenton for voting and to Upton for policing. He felt that the residents would not get sufficient police patrol presence and would like the neighbourhood inspector to meet with the residents and talk to them about their concerns and give them assurances of the frequency of police patrolling in the area.

Inspector Shaw said that he would be glad to meet with them and would take contact details. The reason that the police had followed the ward boundaries was that they had found it beneficial to work with elected Councillors. It was more beneficial to work within the ward boundaries.

Mr. Taylor commented that the residents were the customers, not the Councillors.

Inspector Shaw said that Well Lane Police Station was still open - it was just the officers that worked from Upton.

Mr. Taylor said that the residents could get the officers to patrol.

Inspector Shaw said that there had been no increase in crime since the change happened. He said he would get details of the residents group from Mr. Taylor and meet with them.

Cllr. Pat Williams spoke on behalf of a constituent who was hoping to attend the meeting. They live adjacent to The Swan car park. Recently at least one car, possibly more, had parked there in the early hours of the morning and played music very loudly. The licensee of The Swan contended that it was not his responsibility; the police had said they are busy with other duties and had not been willing to do anything about it. Cllr. Williams asked what could be done to get rid of this neighbourhood nuisance.

Inspector Shaw said that he would make sure that the concerns were followed up. The issue of noise from private premises could be difficult. Legislation stated that Environmental Health had to deal with it because a car park was classed as private premises. He said that he would take the details and follow them up.

Cllr. Freda Anderson said that type of occurence was regular. There had been many instances causing concern to residents where the police were not able to attend. She queried whether a special team could be allocated to these particular issues. Nothing was happening at the current time and it was very frustrating for the public.

Inspector Shaw said that in relation to phoning the police and not getting any help it depended on the time of the call and the demand on police resources. They have a graded response policy which listed the calls in terms of urgency.

Cllr. Anderson said that she still thought it needed to be reported back because it was ongoing and at some stage a solution needed to be found.

Inspector Shaw said that it was an issue they were continually trying to address and it was a massive countrywide problem. The neighbourhood inspector would take ownership of problems and was prepared to work on them for as long as it took to try to solve the problem. There had been a recent problem in the Prenton Dell area that had spilled over onto the Holmlands estate. They were dealing with all of these problems.

Stephen Hesford said that he wouldn’t want it to be misunderstood what the police could do with their powers under new legislation. In various areas of Wirral, problems were being dealt with very effectively. There had to be a partnership approach in dealing with children on the street, which involved co-ordinated efforts throughout Wirral. Since October last year there had been a real change in attitude and such changes didn’t happen overnight. If residents kept on reporting problems to the police they could use the powers they had.

David Bird brought up the issue of the graded response policy by the police and asked if in reality that meant that issues that were low on the response level were never dealt with which caused a great deal of frustration. He had an allotment and broken windows were an issue. He was sure that was very low on the list, and 100% of the time there was no response coming from the police to deal with low levels of crime.

Inspector Shaw said that he didn’t think that the situation would ever arise where callers would get no response at all.

Mr. Bird said that the consequences were that minor crime are never dealt with.

Inspector Shaw said that there had to be some sort of graded response in order to decide what priority a call should be given. There had been instances where there had been no response at all, he could follow it up.

One member of the public stated that the telephone at Well Lane police station often rang out.

Inspector Shaw said that if anybody had never had a response from a call to the police if they should give him the details he would find out what happened. There should never be an occasion where a caller did not get a response.

Councillor Doyle asked Inspector Shaw what was the most appropriate number for the public to ring.

Inspector Shaw said that if they wanted a patrol car to attend they could ring 777 2080 – that number was not for an immediate and urgent response, the number for that is 999.

Alan Dollery reported that they had problems with gangs of youths and a Sgt. Garthwaite and 2 officers intervened, who compiled a dossier and made a presence on the estate which was very effective. They had a few complaints from parents but they eventually accepted what the police were trying to achieve.
He would like to see the introduction of more Community Safety Officers as since the two had been on the estate they had a made a big impact and appeared to be an answer to the problem of lack of police, by taking some pressure off them. He wanted to congratulate Inspector Shaw on his work and would definitely like to see more CSO’s.

A member of the public, Victoria Brawn, reported that the junction between Howbeck Road and Shrewsbury Road had been the scene for a number of minor accidents. She said that on the north side of Shrewsbury Road there was a car dealer and there were a number of cars parked there that restricted a motorist’s view – was there anything that could be done about it.

Inspector Shaw said that he would take details and follow it up. He would need an officer to go and look at the situation to see if an offence was being committed. As far as the police were concerned it was not an offence to sell cars on the public highway. However, the Council were seeking a bye-law to deal with the problem.

Kathy Byrne, a member of the public indicated that the police now had greater powers. She felt that issues that had been brought up could be taken away by Inspector Shaw and acted upon so that at the next forum he could report back with answers to all these concerns. She said the police needed to use the powers that they had already had.

Inspector Shaw said that the Police had used the powers available to them and that he would report back to the next forum.

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Minute 6 - LICENSING POLICY PRESENTATION

Minute Text :

Alan Stennard, Director of Regeneration who was responsible for licensing issues, gave a presentation on the Licensing Act 2003 which would transfer the role of licensing alcohol sales from local Magistrates to the local Council, to be brought into force over the next two years.

It was a requirement of the Licensing Act 2003 that the Council produce a Statement of Licensing Policy setting out the principles the Council would generally apply to promote the licensing objectives when making decisions under the Act.

Mr Stennard would like the public to think about how the licensing policy affected the community. For example, they might see an improvement if it was possible to spread the opening times of establishments that sell alcohol. The Council was in negotiations with police, fire services and members of the licensing trade. He stated that what was required was a fair and proportionate licensing policy. The Council was looking at all premises that sold alcohol and its impact for the potential of longer licensing hours. By spreading out the licensing hours it may be possible to avoid the concentration of customers leaving premises simultaneously. There was a questionnaire available and the public were asked to submit their views and the Council would consider them. These would be needed by mid October and should be directed to: Margaret O’Donnell, Principal Licensing Officer, c/o Town Hall, Brighton Street, Wallasey, Wirral. CH44 8ED.

A member of the public asked if the information was available on the Wirral website.

The reply was that it was on the website, public could also e-mail, write or phone. Details were on page 2 of the questionnaire.

A member of the public felt that the information was being shared very late in the consultation exercise since the replies needed to be back by the middle of October. Most residents probably didn’t know anything about it.

Maxine Joynson reported that adverts had been put in local papers, but Area Forums had not been held for 6 months because of the boundary changes.

Mr. Stennard said that the Council was bound by a national timetable and needed to get a policy in place.

Carl Reilly, resident of Oxton Village, said that he had problems with the Shrewsbury Arms, with parking, noise and people urinating in the street. He asked how changing the licensing hours would help that situation.

Mr. Stennard said that he thought the important thing was that people with local knowledge would start to be involved in decisions about the licensing changes. To start with it was fairly prescriptive but there was a clear recognition about the need to try to tackle the problems raised.

A member of Tranmere Hall residents asked if the Council would have greater powers to refuse granting licences. The place to go for teenagers was usually an off-license or corner shop that sold liquor. It would seem that Magistrates were prepared tp grant a license to anybody. He went on to say that Tranmere Rovers on match days paid for the security inside the ground - it is only fair that a licensee of a pub or shop pay for any damage caused by their sale of alcohol.

Mr. Stennard said that there was a desire to address the issue of newsagents and off-licences selling alcohol. There had to be a balance between liberalisation and effective control. Licensed premises might in the future contribute to costs. This was only the first stage, and the Council would have to look at the impact on the local community.

Cllr. Simon Holbrook said that he welcomed the direction in which the legislation was heading. There would be more accountability and there must be an effective enforcement system if things went wrong.

Cllr Ann Bridson said that in Heswall it has been agreed with off licences that they would not sell alcohol if the customer did not look 21. That was something that might be useful over the whole of Wirral.

Inspector Shaw said that he didn’t think it would be hard to get people to agree with that. However, the main problem was adults buying alcohol for underage youths.

Mr. Stennard said that Trading Standards also work with the police on checking ages. They had run age check schemes and might look at extending that to over 21.

Kathy Byrne was concerned at the number of shops that currently sold alcohol of all kinds. Those shops attracted yobs who hung around, got drunk and caused trouble, thereby jeopardising community safety.

Alan Stennard said that Wirral was quite a safe place to be, but there needed to be a focus on the fear of crime. The magistrates would carry on issuing licenses and there would be a 2 year phasing in period. It was necessary to get people’s views so the Council could shape its policy over these 2 years.

Richard Neale asked what was going to happen to existing licences: would they be under review and possibly change.

Mr. Stennard said that there would be a transitional period and over time the Council would review the policies.

Tony Norbury, a member of the public, said that there was a drink culture in Great Britain. He said that the smoking issue where there had been high profile education informing the public of how dangerous smoking was, was an example of how the dangers of drinking should be pointed out to children. He said he would like to see the Council undertake that sort of campaign.

Mr. Stennard said that in controlling the sale of alcohol they worked with the police and the Health Service and they would be picking up all the issues that had been brought up. The alcohol strategy would try to change the culture. It would not change overnight but it needed to be changed.

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Minute 7 - COMMUNITY SAFETY UPDATE

Minute Text :

Mike Walker gave a presentation on Community Safety and presented figures that showed that Wirral was a safe place to live. He reported that burglaries were down, theft from vehicles was below the national average, car theft was above the national average and violent offences were on the increase. It was thought, however, that the increase resulted from the fact that domestic violence was now included in the figures.

A member of the public asked how one got over the fear factor.

Mr. Walker said it was a matter of education and perception - not everybody with a skinhead is a nuisance or villain. The Council was doing its best to educate everybody, holding forums and establishing support groups and had implemented alley-gating and ASBOs. These policies were working and making a difference.

A member of public asked if there were any plans to do any research into the drop in burglary?

MW said they had a team who analysed the figures to see what might account for the reduction in burglaries. Alley-gating had been very successful in some areas.

Gary Rickwood of the Drugs and Alcohol Action Team then gave a presentation.

He explained that the team were part of a network that covered the whole country. They worked very closely with police, LEA and the Youth Service. The partnership was very strong and all worked well together. Wirral had one of the most effective drug treatment services in the area if not the country.

Persuading users to accept treatment might be one reason for the drop in household burglaries.

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Minute 8 - PRIMARY CARE TRUST UPDATE

Minute Text :

Richard Jones reported that the past 6 months had been quite an exciting time for the Primary Care Trust. The Trust had received a 3* performance rating from the Health Care Commission and the Public Health Team had been nominated for a top national award. Since March the PCT had been negotiating with Cheshire and Merseyside Mental Health regarding the transfer of St Catherine’s and Victoria Central Hospitals to the PCT. The administrative staff from St. Catherine’s would be moved to another building and steps would then be taken to develop it as a PCT Centre.

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Minute 9 - PUBLIC QUESTION TIME

Minute Text :

A member of the public asked about the law on disability and access to buildings - who was responsible for implementation in the Council? Disabled people could get into buildings. (he also commented that there should be an official time slot for ‘any other business’ and not rushed in the last 10 minutes of the meeting).

Councillor Doyle apologised for the rush – the amount of business was due to the fact that there had not been a meeting for a long time. However, the premises had to be vacated by 9 p.m. He said the person responsible for access to Council buildings was David Green, Director of Technical Services.

Mr. Garrett referred to Upton/Prenton area forum held on 25 Feb 2004 (Minute 6) and its consideration of the Arrowe Park Hospital car parking. He asked for an update on the subject, particularly when Tranmere Rovers had rejected a park and ride scheme from their car park (according to the Daily Post). That affected residents of the whole of Wirral.

He also referred to deliberations at the Upton/Prenton area forum held on 25 Feb (Minute 7) and Bidston/Oxton/Claughton area forum held on 29 July 2003 (minute 4) – at each meeting electrification of Bidston to Wrexham line was discussed and it was resolved to support electrification and a new station at Beechwood Estate and Woodchurch Road railway bridge in Prenton. Support was also given to its inclusion of electrification in Wirral’s Community Strategy, and Mr. Garrett asked when the document would be issued for Council taxpayers to view/examine.

Furthermore, Mr Garrett stated that the PCT recently made an announcement that 2 wards at Victoria Central Hospital amounting to 50 beds for short stay for elderly patients to stop bed blocking would be closed. This would be replaced by 17 beds in an older people’s facility in Oxton and a further 23 means tested beds. That would affect residents Wirral-wide and he would appreciate a discussion and explanation on the matter.

Councillor Doyle said that those points would be taken up and reported back at the next meeting. Maxine Joynson said that members of the public could contact her with any queries they wished to raise at the meeting beforehand, so that she could bring any answers/feedback with her to the meeting.

Councillor Mrs Anderson said that the TGWU were holding a rally outside the Town Hall on 13 October over the closure of the wards at Victoria Central.

Richard Neale asked if somebody from Merseytravel could come to the next area forum and answer the points raised on transport.

Roy Dennett, a member of the public from Prenton Ward, asked if he came under Upton Police Station or Well Lane - the answer was Upton police station. He went on to query if all the figures related to reported crime, how many crimes might there be that were not reported. If there was no response from police when people rang them, how could anything be reported? He said that he had spent 10 minutes trying to phone the police without reply.

Councillor Holbrook said that the government had 2 methods of reporting crime - one was which produced statistics of recorded crime; the other was the British Crime Survey which included the crime that the public did not know about. He was not sure if that was broken down into regions or was national statistics.

Stephen Hesford said that he had never come across it split by region. The British Crime Survey suggested that crime was more effectively policed. The level of unspoken crime came out better than proper statistics.

Kathy Byrne mentioned the demolished building at the site of the old people’s home on Woodchurch Road. She was concerned about children hanging around up the pathway, also about rubble lying about and asked if the situation could be looked into.

Toni Bosworth had contacted Maxine Joynson prior to the forum about a children’s play park, as she was unable to attend. That had been raised a year ago and she asked if the forum could address the issue.

The forum was advised that there had been a response from Jim Lester, Head of Cultural Services, to the effect that an amount of £40,000 was available for a playground and a report would go to members in November.

A member of the public asked if there had been a comparison done on the amount spent on alley-gates and similar measures, to prevent crime and the amount spent on facilities for youths and drug treatment. It was also asked if the leap in violent crime could be attributed to increased cocaine use.

Gary Rickwood from DAAT responded by saying that the drug services were resourced and the money was going up year on year. There was no evidence that the increase in violent crime was related to cocaine use: it was more connected to binge drinking.

Minute Decision :

Resolved - Councillor Doyle indicated that he would invite Mr. Walker and Mr. Rickwood to future meetings and thanked them for their time.

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Minute 10 - FUTURE MEETINGS / PRESENTATIONS

Minute Text :

For the next meetings it was hoped to keep the same venue for the meetings and it was proposed that it would be Woodchurch Road Primary School. If anybody disagreed with that proposal they should contact Maxine Joynson.

The Chair thanked everybody who attended for their time and input into the meeting.

The meeting closed at 9.00 p.m.

Dates for future meetings:Thursday, 3 February 2005, and Wednesday, 15 June 2005.

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(Minutes Published: 9 November 2004)